Использование захватов.FuzionЦитата
Grab
-2 to Perform; grab target or gradget; -3 Defence for both.
Use this Action to get a grip on an opponent, a weapon, a gadget, or something else.
A successful Grab allows the attacker to hold, pin, choke or throw his opponent; he may also attempt to grab a weapon from his opponent’s grasp. Use an Opposed Skill check to see if you can break out of a Grab (use STR Characteristic plus Hand to Hand, Athletics or Martial Arts (whichever is highest); the attacker suffers -2 to his roll.
When Grabbed, both grabber and grabbee are -3 DEX to all other attacks. The grabber can choose to do his full STR in damage to the grabbee each turn.
Choke: Hold A Grab at -4 REF. 2D6 Killing Attack. And you can't talk while being choked.
A two hand or one arm Grab maneuver (unless you’re really big and your GM allows you to use one hand or arm). Once a successful Choke hold is established, the choker will do 2D6 each phase in killing damage unless the Choke is broken by the victim.
Escape: Escape from Grabs or Entangles, using STR+Athletics (or combat) skill vs opponent's STR+Athletics (or combat) skill.
This is the action of freeing yourself from physical holds, chokes, entanglements or simple traps (like snares or nets). This requires a separate roll using your STR+ Hand to Hand skill against the holder’s Athletics (or Hand to Hand) skills plus their Strength.
Example:
Although Fox’s Athletics is 7, her STR is only 3. Brick’s Athletics is only 3, but his STR is 10. The extra 3 point edge easily allows Brick to hold Fox immobilized.
If pitted against a trap, you will use your STR+Athletics Skill against a Difficulty Value set by the GM. On a successful roll, you are free of the hold and may move again. Hand to Hand or Tech-based Skills may also be used in default of Athletics if the GM agrees.
Fists of FuzionЦитата
GrappleThe effect of this modifier is a Hold I and on a successful roll the player will gain the advantages therein. The player can use this as a defense or an attack.
- As a defense, he will not be able to dodge, block or parry; his defense will be the grab, like grabbing the hand of an opponent with a sword. Remember, if used as a defense it is subject to defense rules.
- As an attack there is no damage delivered (unless modified to do so) just the hold and the maneuver is treated as an attack.
If the player has a follow-grapple maneuver it will work even if he has had the target in a hold for 10 rounds, because last round he had him in a grapple.
Once the player establish a grapple on a target he does not need to roll each phase to keep him in it, unless the target tries to escape. If the target tries to escape then the player will have to make a maintain roll. The advantage here is that it will not cost the player a phase to maintain the hold but it does cost the target a phase to attempt an escape.
To
escape, the target declares that he is trying to do so. The player and the target roll off, the higher roll wins.
This is
Dexterity + Martial Arts verse Dexterity + Martial Arts roll.
Remember to give the player any reflex benefits he received from the initial maneuver.
If the target wins, he is free. In this case, if the player lost initiative then he would lose his action but if he had won initiative his action would have gone before the escape attempt.
Except as noted, the target can do anything he wants except move away from the player. Thus, if he wishes to punch the player in the head, all he has to do is accept the modifier and then go to it. However, throwing the player any distance would be out of the question. If the target wants to move somewhere other then where the player wants him to go, then you must compare strengths. The character with the highest strength may control the direction and velocity of movement up to a distance equal to his the difference of the opponent’s strengths and only up to his move.
See Holds for more information on specific holding modifiers.
Mod: EscapeThis modifier is used to counteract a grappling maneuver. It indicates that the player is trained to reposition himself or to use leverage to enhance his potential for escape. When the player uses this modifier he will gain a +3 to his skill roll to break a hold.
Basic Requirements: Grapple
Mod: HoldsHolds cover all forms of grappling, grabbing, holding and restraining. Thus, a maneuver must have grappling included in it to perform any restriction. If a restriction is obtained, the modifiers apply until the player is stunned, knocked out, let’s go or the defender breaks free.
If the player wishes to grapple a certain area then he must assume the minus to his AV to do so. Thus, if the player were trying to perform an arm lock he would assume a -1 to AV to grab the arm. Once a limb has been held however, the player will no longer receive a minus to hit that area.
If the player had a target in a headlock, he could then pound on the target's face all day without an aim modifier for the head.
- Hold 1:
This is a basic grab. There is no special maneuvering or holding location. On a success roll the target gains -2 to martial arts AV rolls against the player. In addition, he will be at a minus equal to the amount of strength the player has above him to all evade rolls. If the target's strength is equal to or higher then the player's strength, he will receive no minus for movement.
- Hold 2:
This is a hold or a pin. It places the target in a venerable position by snaring the target’s limb(s). The player will entangle and temporarily disable the target’s limb(s). The player can disable as many limbs as he sacrifices himself. On a success roll the target gains -3 to martial arts AV. In addition, he will be at a minus equal to the amount of strength the player has above him to his evade rolls. If the target’s strength is equal to or higher then the player’s strength he will receive no minus for movement.
- Hold 3:
This is lock. The player maneuvers a target’s limb(s) into a very painful position so that a nerve is pressed against a joint. This causes the target to abide by the player’s discretion or suffer the consequences. On a success roll the target gains -5 to martial arts AV. Treat this as you would a hold II for all other aspects of the maneuver. If the target wishes to escape by pure strength alone, he will receive killing damage equal to the player’s martial arts level but will be free. In most cases this will snap the limb of the target, rendering it useless. Remember that the limb will only take as much damage as it has to offer.
Choking: If you place a hold on the targets neck and your strength is greater then half of the targets constitution then the target will lose 1 point of body and have a -1 AV every other
phase until the player releases or is forced to release the target. If the target goes below the inverse of his constitution he is dead.
Otherwise, he will regain 1 point of body and AV every other phase after being released. If he goes to or below a 0 body he will become unconscious and will half the recovery rate (unless it’s a Mook). This is not power drain so power defense will not help the target. If, by chance, the target does not need to breathe or has rigid armor around the neck, this can not be done to him.
Basic Requirements: Grapple
HEROСтандартная проверка в HERO выглядит следующим образом:
OCV (Героя) – DCV (Цели) + 11 против 3d6
Проверка считается успешной в случае если значение слева менее либо равно (<=) значению кубиков.Цитата
STANDARD MANEUVERSGrab: 1/2 Phase, -1 OCV, -2 DCV, Effects: Grab Two Limbs; can Squeeze, Slam, or Throw
Making A GrabTo Grab an opponent, a character must make an Attack Roll with appropriate modifiers. If successful, he has Grabbed his opponent. (As described below under Escaping From Grabs, the victim immediately gets a Casual STR roll to break free, if desired.)
SQUEEZING, SLAMMING, AND THROWINGIn many cases, a character Grabs his enemy just to hold onto him or prevent him from doing something, but sometimes the Grabber wants to hurt the target at the same time. A character who has Grabbed someone can do either of the following:
- Squeeze him.
This does regular STR damage (STR/5 in d6 of Normal Damage) to the victim; the character retains his hold on the victim.
- Slam him
against something (such as the ground or a wall). This does regular STR damage (STR/5 in d6 of Normal Damage) to the victim; the character retains his hold on the victim.
- Throw him,
using the Throw Combat Maneuver (6E2 80), which requires him to let go of the victim.
If the Grabber chooses to Squeeze, Slam, or Throw the Grabbed character in the same Segment in which he (the Grabber) successfully Grabbed him, the Squeeze, Slam, or Throw does not require an Attack Roll (it automatically succeeds) and takes no time. A character cannot Hold this “free” action; he must use it in that same Segment.
If the Grabber wants to Squeeze, Slam, or Throw his victim in a later Phase, doing so is an Attack Action (it doesn’t automatically succeed, requires an Attack Roll, and so forth). Assume any Grab-and-Throw is a Standing Throw, unless the Grabber begins a Phase with a Grabbed victim and the GM lets him move before making the Throw. If the Attack Roll for a Squeeze or Slam fails, the victim takes no damage but remains Grabbed.
After performing a Grab, in that same Segment a character can only Squeeze, Slam, or Throw the target as an immediate attack. He can’t use any other maneuvers or attacks (unless the GM
so permits, and even in that case, using another attack should mean releasing the Grab in most circumstances). In later Phases he can use any attacks he wants (provided he has the free limbs or
other means to do so).
If a Grab-based Maneuver (such as Martial Grab) provides a STR bonus, that bonus applies solely for the purposes of holding on to the target. It doesn’t increase the damage done by Squeezing, Slamming, or Throwing the target, increase the distance a target can be thrown, or have any other effect. Similarly, characters can use Combat Skill Levels to increase their OCV or DCV when Grabbing, but not the damage done by Squeezing, Slamming, or Throwing.
A character cannot use his Hand-To-Hand Attack to improve the damage done by Squeezing, Slamming, or Throwing a Grabbed character. Nor can characters Haymaker Squeeze, Slam, or Throw damage. Grab-and-Throw damage doesn’t get a bonus from the velocity of the Grabbed character the way a Martial Throw does.
Escaping From GrabsWhen a Grabbed character tries to escape from his captor, both characters roll 1d6 for each 5 STR
they have and count the Normal Damage BODY.
If the Grabbed character’s total is higher, he escapes; if the Grabber’s total is higher or the rolls tie, the victim remains Grabbed. Trying to break out of a Grab does no damage to either character.
The rules for Casual Use of STR (6E1 131 - When a character uses a Power Casually, he uses it at half effect (or even less, if he prefers). For example, a character with STR 40 has a “Casual STR” of 20; a character with a Blast 12d6 has a “Casual Blast” of 6d6.) mean very strong characters can effectively ignore Grabs performed by much weaker foes. A Grabbed character should be allowed to roll his Casual STR immediately after being Grabbed, if desired (even if he doesn’t have a Zero Phase Action available; this initial attempt to break free is an Action that takes no time, though the character can only try it once, right after he’s first Grabbed). The Grabbing character uses his entire Grabbing STR to resist this breakout attempt; he’s not restricted to using just his Casual STR.
A character attempting to escape immediately with Casual STR may apply half his STR bonus from an Escape-based Martial Maneuver (such as Martial Escape), but may not apply bonus dice from using Contortionist, a Movement Power, or the like. In later Phases, he may use half the bonuses from Contortionist and/or Movement Powers to increase a Casual STR roll to break out, but using either or both converts the use of Casual STR to a Half Phase Action. He can add full Contortionist and/or Movement Power bonuses to a normal, full-STR damage roll to break free.
A character cannot Abort his next Phase to use his full STR the very same moment he’s Grabbed, unless the GM specifically permits this on the grounds that it’s “defensive” because being free from a Grab prevents the character from suffering a DCV penalty.
A character may not use a Ranged Attack that exerts force (such as a Blast) to break free from a
Grab, even if it has the No Range Limitation.
The standard rules for Grab indicate that the victim’s STR damage roll to break free must exceed the Grabber’s roll — in other words, ties go to the Grabber, not the victim. As an option, the GM can rule that ties go to the stronger character. That way a character with, say, STR 41 derives a little benefit from spending that extra point when he’s wrestling with a character who has STR 40.
See 6E2 124 for more information on escaping Grabs, including the time required and the Actions available to the character after he breaks free.
GRAB AND COMBAT VALUEThe standard CV penalties for performing a successful Grab are:
- Grabber:
1/2 DCV against all attackers (including Grabbed character)
Full OCV against the Grabbed character
1/2 OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)
- Grabbed:
1/2 DCV against all attackers (including Grabber)
-3 OCV against the Grabber (if attacks are possible at all)
1/2 OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)
At the GM’s option, if the Grabber’s STR is 20 or more points higher than the Grabbed character’s STR, change the penalties to the following:
- Grabber:
-2 DCV against all attackers (including Grabbed character)
Full OCV against the Grabbed character
-1 OCV against other targets (if attacks are possible at all)
Breaking Out Of Entangles And Grabs...
- If a Grabbed character’s attempt to break out of a Grab does twice as much BODY on his STR Roll as the BODY rolled for the Grabber’s STR Roll, the Grabbed character frees himself and has a Full Phase in which to act.
- If the Grabbed character’s attempt to break free does enough BODY to break free (i.e., more BODY than rolled by the character Grabbing him), but less than twice the BODY on the Grabber’s STR Roll, the Grabbed character is free, but may take no more Actions that Phase.
At the GM’s option, a character doesn’t have to make a complete escape from a Grab or Entangle. Instead, he can try to free only one limb, which he can then use as he sees fit. This allows +5 STR on the attempt to escape or break free, since he can concentrate his efforts on freeing just one limb. (This rule only applies to Grabs that target more than one limb; if Grabbed with a Maneuver that by definition only Grabs one limb, such as a Choke Hold, characters have to break out using the regular rules.)
Захваты оказались довольно запутанной темой, в которой нам с
bookwarrior`ом не удалось прийти к однозначному мнению. И кажется настало время разобраться в сути вопроса.
Первое что бросается в глаза в описании данного манёвра в
Fuzion - это отсутствие чёткого разделения на такие разные действия как
Взять противника в захват и
Удерживать противника в захвате, дана лишь одна взаимная проверка с использованием Силы.
Кончено, можно предположить что она используется в обоих случаях, однако при таком раскладе у персонажа появляется атака в которой Сила отвечает не только за наносимые повреждения, но и за Точность. В этом случае Захват становится исключительно удобным средством ведения боя для персонажей с большой Силой и низкими Рефлексами.
В остальном же Захват проводится с пенальти -2 AV, в случае успеха позволяет удерживать, обездвижить, выполнить болевой приём или вырвать из рук оппонента предмет за который совершен захват.
Также, оба оппонента получают пенальти -3 DEX к защите от всех сторонних атак.
Fists of Fuzion вносит значительные правки, но отнюдь не исчерпывающие:
Как стандартный манёвр, Захват производится без каких-либо пенальти (да, в приложении написано Ev -2, но не указанно во что эти 2 СР переходят, что делает манёвр несбалансированным по стоимости).
Вводятся степени Удержания - I, II и III, аналогов чего в HERO не существует.
Находясь в удержании Цель получает пенальти к точности атак против персонажа и, в случае если Сила удерживающего больше, пенальти к уклонению от всех атак.
Пенальти к защите от атак производимых сторонними персонажами не оговариваются (хотя, наверно, подразумевается что они выражаются модификацией Ev для манёвров против оппонента в Удержании и пенальти к уклонению в случае если Сила удерживающего больше).
Помимо прочего, FoF оговаривает количество задействованных во время Захвата конечностей, хотя, в рамках известной мне механики Fuizon эта информация является не такой важной.
Захват с удушением получает отдельную механику.
Для Болевых приёмов, по видимому, должен использоваться дополнительный модификатор Смертельный (Killing).
Но самое главное - очень спорной становится механика Высвобождения.
Формула проверки принимает новый вид: Dexterity + Martial Arts verse Dexterity + Martial Arts roll
Почему авторы поставили Ловкость вместо Силы?
Скажу честно – не знаю, но Сила здесь гараздо уместнее.
В тексте указанно что Захват может быть использован как в атакующем манёвре, так и в защитном. В обоих случаях это попытка схватить предмет или конечность оппонента.
Но что же тогда Высвобождение (Escape)?
И вот касательно действия модификатора Высвобождение наши с
bookwarrior`ом мнения разошлись. Самым главным вопросом стал:
Распространяется ли на Высвобождение пенальти к Боевым Искусствам от Удержания?
В своём варианте я кажется разобрался:
В приложении, в таблице манёвров захватов, есть два весь интересных манёвра:
- Escape: Grapple: Escape
- Hold Reversal: Grapple: Escape + Hold 2
Первый вариант прямо указывает на то как выглядит
улучшенное Высвобождение, поскольку манёвр стоит 2 СР и даёт баёт бонус +3 AV (причём, я так думаю, это единственный способ получить прибавку AV в данном манёвре).
Следовательно стандартный манёвр Высвобождения должен выглядеть:
- Escape (Standard): Grapple
По сути это недокументированная защита доступная только в состоянии Удержания - попытка не схватить оппонента, а вырваться из его хватки.
Так что на счёт пенальти?
Пенальти к AV Боевых Искусств и уклонению от Удержания
не распространяются на проверку Высвобождения, единственным модификатором является AV манёвра с помощью которого был совершен Захват.
В этом случае шанс высвободиться из Удержания I, II или III одинаков (при условии что AV манёвра-захвата одинаков). Может это не совсем реалистично, но честно в плане цифр (бонус AV манёвра компенсируется бонусом AV от доп.Модификатора Высвобождение).
Теперь вспомним про Hold Reversal.
Этот манёвр уже больше похож на типичную атаку и поэтому на него
пенальти AV от Удержания распространяются в полном объёме.
Есть мнение что манёвр записан неверно и должен выглядеть:
Hold Reversal: Grapple: Escape / Grapple: Hold 2
но это только предположение.HERO не очень большое внимание уделяет технике боя с использованием захватов.
Захват проводится с пенальти точности -1 OCV и защиты -2 DCV, помимо прочего оппонент может моментально защититься при помощи повседневной (уполовиненной) Силы.
В случае успешного захвата позволяет Сжать, Ударить или Бросить оппонента (сразу и/или в последующую фазу).
Оба оппонента получают пенальти к защите от всех сторонних атак и пенальти к точности атак против всех сторонних объектов. Единственным преимуществом персонажа успешно осуществившим захват является пенальти к точности атак осуществляемым против него удерживаемым оппонентом.
Высвобождение осуществляется при помощи взаимных проверок Силы.
В случае если Герой пытается высвободить только одну конечность он получает бонус +5 Силы.
В случае Захватов сравнение
Fuzion и
HERO нам мало что даёт, поэтому чтобы расставить все модификаторы по местам я хочу слегка коснуться третьей системы и одного из её дополнений, а именно
GURPS Basic Set 4ed и
GURPS: Technical Grappling.
GURPS Basic SetЦитата
Grappling (pp. B370)
“Grappling” is an attempt to grab your foe’s body.
You must have at least one empty hand. On a game board, you must also move into your foe’s hex (“close combat”).
Each attempt requires an Attack, All-Out Attack, or Move and Attack maneuver. Roll against basic DX or a grappling skill to hit. Your foe may defend normally – he can parry, dodge, or block. You may Evaluate or Feint beforehand to improve your odds of success.
Grappling does no damage, but if you successfully hit, the foe has -4 to DX as long as you’re holding on. He may not move away until he breaks free (see Actions After Being Grappled, p. 371) or you let go. Exception: If you grapple a foe of more than twice your ST, you do not prevent him from moving away – you’re just extra encumbrance for him!
You may grapple with any or all of your arms. If you grapple with more than two arms, each arm beyond the first two gives a bonus of +2 to hit. An arm committed to grappling cannot make unarmed parries until you let go. Letting go is a free action on your turn.
If you are holding onto your foe with all your arms, the only further attacks you can make are those listed under Actions After a Grapple.
Break Free
If you are grappled, you cannot move away until you break free by winning a Quick Contest of ST. Your foe has +5 if he is grappling you with two hands. If he has you pinned, he rolls at +10 if using two hands or at +5 if using only one, and you may only attempt to break free once every 10 seconds. If either of you has three or more arms, each arm beyond the first two gives +2. If your foe is stunned, he rolls at -4; if he falls unconscious, you are automatically free! If you successfully break free, you may immediately move one yard in any direction.
- Попытка Захвата требует проверки DX или Навыка.
- Удерживаемый оппонент получает -4 DX
- Высвобождение проводится не чаще одного раза в 10 сек. Быстрым Состязанием ST
Модификаторы:
+5 за использование при удержании двух рук.
+5 если оппонент полностью обездвижен и для захвата используются одна рука.
+10 если оппонент полностью обездвижен и для захвата используются две руки.
+2 за каждую дополнительную руку после двух.
-4 если Оглушён.
GURPS Technical GrapplingЦитата
Control Points
When using Technical Grappling, there are various degrees of “grappled.” A successful grappling attack inflicts Control Points (CP) that hinder your foe’s actions. Control Points are analogous to damage or an affliction (rather than a character’s store of Hit Points or Fatigue Points).
Determine how many CP you apply by looking up your Trained ST on the Damage Table (pp. B16 or 48), using the “Thrust” column.
Active Control
Once achieved, Control Points may be maintained until you let go, expend them, or your foe breaks free. While you maintain them, your opponent is less able to resist effectively. These CP and the penalties they inflict are called active control.
Active control reduces the coordination and power that a grappled subject can bring to bear, lowering his ST and DX while the CP are maintained. Every full 2 CP inflicted give -1 to ST and DX for actions involving that body part.
Active control replaces the usual -4 to DX from a successful grappling attack (p. B370).
Maximum Control Points
There’s only so much restraint a weaker or less-skilled individual can apply to a stronger and more skilled opponent. In a realistic game, the amount of CP a grappler is maintaining cannot exceed his Trained ST. This replaces the injunction against grappling those of more than twice your strength on p. B370.
Weapons act as levers, multiplying power and increasing the maximum CP: Flexible weapons allow up to 1.5.(Trained ST), while rigid melee weapons (see Characteristics of Grappling Weapons, pp. 14-16) raise this to 2.(Trained ST).
In cinematic games, the GM might raise or eliminate these limits.
Дополнение вводит термин Единиц Контроля, которые, накапливаясь в результате атак захватом, увеличивают пенальти к ST и DX удерживаемого персонажа, и могут быть израсходованы для получения бонуса в проверках связанных с действиями при удержании.
Ну и что можно сказать в заключении?
В классическом
Fuzion и
HERO захваты не особо выделяются и от них больше ограничений чем выгоды.
В
GURPS всё интересно, закручено и сложно, на то он и ГУРПС.
Что касается
Fists of Fuzion, то там лучше чем в классике, но вечно что-то не совсем понятное, чего-то не хватает, и приходится додумывать собственной головой.
Комментаторская, закадровый голос
Список форумов · Кладбище · Городское кладбище · Мое Манчкин-Фу сильнее твоего Имба-До!
